5 MAY 1940

PURANI: I don't think England has withdrawn from Trendjheim because of the Italian threat.

SATYENDRA: The debate comes on Tuesday. The Labour Party is going to heckle Chamberlain. Simon says, "Be cheerful and we will win in the end." (Laughter)

Page - 614

SRI AUROBINDO: He means, " Be cheerful and we will muddle through." Hore-Belisha will now say, "I told you so."

NIRODBARAN: Almost all the papers have supported the Government except The Mail, The Herald and The News.

SATYENDRA: The papers say the Ministers have all agreed on their policy.

SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, Hore-Belisha also, I suppose! Chamberlain said, "We are perfectly agreed on policy." At the end it was seen that they had disagreed all along.

NIRODBARAN: Labour also is supporting Chamberlain.

SRI AUROBINDO: During war they stick together.

NIRODBARAN: In the last war there was a change of ministry.

SRI AUROBINDO : That was because of general discontent. The Conservatives have to become dissatisfied with Chamberlain before they change him. The question is: whom will they put in his place? Among Labour and the Liberals there is no one except Lloyd George, but he is too old. Among the Conservatives, all except Churchill and Hore-Belisha are imbecile.

SATYENDRA: Chamberlain won't easily give up.

SRI AUROBINDO: No, he will stick on with his hands, feet and teeth unless forcibly dislodged. It is because there is not a single real statesman in Europe that Hitler and Mussolini are getting their own way.

SATYENDRA: The Neutrals will lose their fear under the British strength and protection.

SRI AUROBINDO : Yes, but Sweden is very bitter.

SATYENDRA: It is their neutrality that the British are critical of.

SRI AUROBINDO: That is true. If Sweden had joined them, it would have been a great help.

PURANI: The Allies could have attacked Germany from the rear.

SRI AUROBINDO: These countries think that their neutrality will save them.

NIRODBARAN: Now Sweden is at Germany's mercy and the British can't help them as effectively.

SRI AUROBINDO: Quite so. If they want to help, they will have to do it in another way. They will have to land 300,000 troops in Narvik.

NIRODBARAN: One American paper says, "Licking rouses the British to a great impetus."

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SRI AUROBINDO: That is true. They have a great tenacity.

NIRODBARAN: A few reverses for the British will be good for India.

SATYENDRA: I don't think so. They won't let us go so easily.

SRI AUROBINDO: No, unless they are beaten.

PURANI : N.N.Sircar is asking the Congress to accept the Ministry.

SRI AUROBINDO: They say that because they are officials themselves.

NIRODBARAN: Gandhi has now agreed to a smaller body, provided it is elected.

SRI AUROBINDO: Elected by whom?

NIRODBARAN: I mean not nominated by the Government.

SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, but elected by whom?

NIRODBARAN: By the people.

SRI AUROBINDO: Then it comes to the same thing as the Constituent Assembly. It has to be elected by the Assembly.

NIRODBARAN: But will the Muslims agree? They will be in a minority.

SRI AUROBINDO: They can have their own elected representatives. Either the Assembly has to elect the member or each party has to give its own schemes and have them thrashed out by discussion. Only one or the other of these two prospects seems possible. The idea of the Constituent Assembly is not likely to be practicable. It will be a large body and won't be able to reach any agreement.

NIRODBARAN: But the Muslims will still put forward their Pakistan scheme which can't be accepted.

SRI AUROBINDO: There each party, as I said, will give its own scheme,. If the Punjab Muslims, Sikhs, N.W.F. Baluchistan and other Muslims, such as the Arhars and Momins, stand against Pakistan, then the League will have to drop it. Now the League leaders say that they are the sole representatives of the Muslims and the Government strongly supports them. The Congress is also half-hearted against Pakistan. But once it is shown that the League leaders are not the sole representatives, the Government will have to accept the fact. At the same time the League will be a consultative body discussing all problems and putting them before the Constituent Assembly and the Government to be approved or accepted as the case may be.

Page - 616

NIRODBARAN: But the Congress is making a demand that the Government must accept whatever agreement they come to.

SRI AUROBINDO: That is absurd. They can't bind themselves in advance to whatever agreement is reached. They have their own interests. You can't say that they can't have any voice in the matter. That is not practical. If you say that, you are declaring independence and asking them to go away bag and baggage; they can't agree to it. They will do so only if they are forced to, or if they are beaten badly in the war.

PURANI: You can't say that you will accept the Pakistan scheme, for instance, and ask them to accept it.

SRI AUROBINDO: That is, as Zetland said, all tall talk and phrase-making. It is not practical. The Congress is wrong in laying down such conditions. The Government is not going to submit to it. What they really intend to give is some form of Dominion Status as in Ireland, where India will be linked to Great Britain and not go over to any foreign power against her, as she can if she is independent. The British want to keep India with them and slowly and gradually release power from their hands, expecting that in time we shall become accustomed to having a connection with them. The Congress and others are shouting old slogans in changed conditions. At one time the Independence cry was all right, but now Dominion Status is almost equivalent to that and in time you will be virtually independent. Besides, it is the best option under the present conditions in contrast to charkha and non-violence. Hitler won't give it, neither will Mussolini nor Japan. Stalin may give autonomy but controlled from Moscow. Moreover, the first thing he will do will be to cut off the industrialists and middle class and establish a peasant proletariat.

NIRODBARAN.: The British have no interest in the Indian problem, as was shown by the poor attendance on the India debate.

SRI AUROBINDO: That doesn't mean they won't stick to India.

PURANI : If Hitler invades India, Gandhi will declare we are all non-violent.

SRI AUROBINDO: Hitler will be delighted at it.

PURANI: Yes, he will sweep off everybody with machine guns. Gandhi believes he can be converted.

SRI AUROBINDO: It is a beautiful idea but not credible. Does anybody really believe in his non-violence?

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PURANI: I don't think so, except perhaps a few of his lieutenants. Others take it as a policy. Patel does not believe in it.

SRI AUROBINDO : Will he face an army with his charkha?

SATYENDRA: Gandhi is so shrewd in so many respects; I wonder why he doesn't see this absurd side of his programme. He seems reactionary in many ways. He is against armaments because they are so ruinous.

SRI AUROBINDO: I dare say they are, but how can you avoid them?

SATYENDRA: He is against all machinery and the use of mechanical things such as fountain-pens, though he is forced to use them. It would be ludicrous to carry inkpot and pen wherever he went. Besides, it would be so inconvenient as he writes whenever he gets time — and he writes with both hands.

EVENING

The radio said that Lloyd George had severely condemned Chamberlain.

SRI AUROBINDO (opening the talk): So L. G. has hit Chamberlain on the head? He says he is both inefficient and ineffective.

SATYENDRA: There will be a lively debate. We shall be able to learn more about it.

PURANI: Chamberlain may have to go.

SRI AUROBINDO: If he makes another blunder he will have to. The Conservatives also are dissatisfied.

NIRODBARAN: An American paper proposes Sinclair's name. He does not seem a prominent figure.

SRI AUROBINDO: Nobody knows anything about him. But in his speeches he seems to be always to the point and his criticisms are , sound, but I don't know how he would be as a Cabinet Minister.

PURANI: It is really a wonder how they thought of fighting the German army with such insufficient troops.

SRI AUROBINDO: Not only insufficient but ill-equipped. They have no heavy guns, no aircraft, no mechanised units.

NIRODBARAN: They have not given out the number of men sent.

PURANI: The odds against them are three to one, says an American paper. How can they fight such a superior force with that meagre number?

Page - 618

NIRODBARAN: They relied on their wonderful navy perhaps.

SRI AUROBINDO: The navy is all right. It has done good work. Even then, why didn't they destroy the German fleet at Oslo?

NIRODBARAN: Churchill also will have some grievance against Chamberlain.

SATYENDRA : Chamberlain is not responsible for everything.

SRI AUROBINDO: But he is in command of both air and navy. Perhaps he will say he acted according to military advice, but the latter may have merely chimed in with his own ideas. Britain's mine-laying also was not very successful. Otherwise how could the Germans get reinforcements? The British navy could not prevent that?

PURANI: The navy could not go into the Baltic because of the German air force which would have attacked it.

SATYENDRA: What about the air force?

SRI AUROBINDO: The British had no air base in Norway.

NIRODBARAN: They could not establish an air base in Dombas?

SRI AUROBINDO: No, that is too far inside the country. Air bases are very difficult to establish. In Norway there is only one good air base, Stavanger, and that was in German hands.

PURANI: The Hindu says that Skagerrak and Kattegat were too narrow and shallow for the fleet to pass through.

SRI AUROBINDO: That is an excuse. The German battleships were passing in and out. In fact that route is the only way. Russians passed their big battleships through it during the Japanese war. The papers are saying that the British sent the Territorials to Norway who had been trained only a few months earlier for the war. In France they have such a big army, they could easily have spared about 200,000 men. Even England could have spared some regular forces.

SATYENDRA: They have sent Canadian forces, they say.

SRI AUROBINDO: The Canadian forces have never fought before. They are about as good as the British forces who have only read of war in books.

PURANI : It is the French who know how to fight.

SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, because they have conscription. Everybody is compelled to undergo training, and afterwards they are called up from time to time so that they won't forget.

Page - 619

PURANI : Even the French Fathers had contempt for the English soldiers. During the last war they used to say, "Oh, the English!"

SRI AUROBINDO: You know the jingo poem of the English?

We do not want to fight;

But, by Jingo! if we do,

We've got the men, we've got the ships,

We've got the money too!

The Continentals say that they have others to fight for them. The Germans said during the last war, "The English will fight to the last Frenchman." But the English will say, "We need not be sentimental over that. We have defeated the French, Russians and Germans."

6 MAY 1940

The Prabuddha Bharata gave a summary of The Life Divine, chapter by chapter.

SRI AUROBINDO (after reading the summary): It is a mess -ideas are strung together without any connection. All very scrappy and loose!

PURANI: Nolini also said something similar. How can anyone give a summary in such a short space?

SATYENDRA: There may be people who will find something in it. This headmaster's booklet is being asked for by some friends of mine. Have you read it, Nirod?

NIRODBARAN: No, thank you.

SRI AUROBINDO: Which book?

NIRODBARAN: The book on your Yoga, which is nothing but a heap of references. Radhananda also has written a book on your Yoga.

SRI AUROBINDO: Not my Yoga, but all Yogas.

NIRODBARAN: But the title is about your Yoga.

Now the talk turned on K.

SATYENDRA: He has grown very thin.

SRI AUROBINDO: By retirement one may get either Brahman or lose one's head.

Page - 620

SATYENDRA: But it may do good in some way.

SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, if one knows the way.

SATYENDRA: Radhananda is also in retirement.

SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, but with the Mother's sanction. Besides, he knows the way. He has done it many times.

PURANI: However, he talks with people whenever necessary and he is quite normal in his behaviour. Only when I had to take him to the French police station last time, he got a shock of surprise at everything. Looking at the French flag he remarked, "Why is that here? Why isn't it the Congress flag?"

SRI AUROBINDO: He thought the Congress has established Swaraj already? (Laughter)

CHAMPAKLAL: But he exaggerates things and always talks about himself.

SATYENDRA: People in retirement usually do that.

CHAMPAKLAL: He had a bunch of bananas. He said they were for you, but he ate them all.

SRI AUROBINDO: He has a strong imagination. Perhaps he meant that when he ate the bananas, I ate them and that when he eats I eat. (Laughter)

SATYENDRA: This K, when asked by somebody why he took to retirement last time, said, "Some Power and Will behind told me to do so and that Will is still there behind."

SRI AUROBINDO: That is the danger. No one knows where that Will will land him.

PURANI: He seems to have or have had an inferiority complex: he believes that people don't respect him and that he has no personality, etc. This led him to the resolve to pass the M.A.

SRI AUROBINDO: The M.A. will give him personality? That shows what he wants. It is because people seek personal power that retirement becomes dangerous.

EVENING

NIRODBARAN: Lloyd George has used terms like yours about the war management!

SRI AUROBINDO (laughing): Yes, his speech is very truculent. This Chamberlain does not seem to want anybody with individuality around him. In place of Hore-Belisha he has put a man who knows how to do only routine work.

Page - 621

NIRODBARAN: Our X is fighting on many fronts while the British are fighting only on two fronts.

SRI AUROBINDO: How?

NIRODBARAN: He says he has to fight Imperialism, the High Command, the Muslim Ministry, Ad Hoc committees, the Hindu Sabha and the reactionary press!

SATYENDRA: About the Hindu Sabha leaders he says, "Where were they when we were in prison? Let them come out from the high courts and fight."

SRI AUROBINDO: I don't see why they should. They haven't, like him, given an ultimatum to the British Government.

PURANI: "And where was he when Savarkar and Parmanand were in the Andamans?", the Hindu Sabha will say.

7 MAY 1940

SRI AUROBINDO (to Purani): Do you know if Bhedabheda and Dwaitadwaita are the same? One, I know, is the philosophy of Nimbarkar and the other of Bhaskara.

PURANI: I think they are the same philosophy and by the same person. The two names are of one man.

SRI AUROBINDO: Everybody says that what I have said is just their own philosophy. Nimbarkar's followers, the Ramanuja school, the adherents of Appaya Dikshita —all claim they have said the same thing. Somebody in Madras says my philosophy is just what Hegel has said and lastly I am told that it is the same as Shankara's philosophy!

PURANI: Yes, somebody observed, "It is very fine and exactly what Shankara has said." Nagaraja of The Hindu says it is pure Adwaita and there is nothing new in it. (After a pause) Narvik is still in German hands.

SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, and the Allies are closing in.

NIRODBARAN: It seems to me they will make a mess of this too.

SRI AUROBINDO: Quite likely. It is said there are 130,000 Norwegians in the North. With their help I don't know why the Allies can't take Narvik. The Germans have occupied Namsos and if they send reinforcements to the North it will be difficult for the Allies.

PURANI : Yes, they are already sending troops and the air force.

Page - 622

SATYENDRA: We shall see what Chamberlain has to say.

PURANI: Probably there will be changes in the Cabinet.

SRI AUROBINDO: That depends on the debate.

NIRODBARAN: Labour opposition may give in at last.

SRI AUROBINDO: Moreover, they have no one to form a Ministry, although there are some good organisers among them.

NIRODBARAN: Unless they form a National Government with a Conservative Prime Minister.

SRI AUROBINDO: In that case Churchill, Hore-Belisha, Eden and Lloyd George will have to come in. Morrison may be in the Ministry of Information and Greenwood for Labour while Attlee may be given some ornamental post, Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancashire.

NIRODBARAN: Why has Chamberlain been made the leader?

SRI AUROBINDO: Perhaps because he knows the tactics of debate, that's all.

NIRODBARAN: Is Halifax good?

SRI AUROBINDO: No, Halifax is good and wise and ineffective. Eden will do well as Foreign Secretary.

PURANI: The Hindu says that the Allies are short of bombers.

SRI AUROBINDO: But they have plenty of fighters with which they can fight the bombers. Bombers are only meant for the destruction of military objectives or ships or towns, etc. Even then it has been shown that German bombers are not so effective, while with whatever bombers the Allies have they have been quite successful at hitting military objectives.

In Narvik they have their navy with which they can bombard the coast and then with the fleet's air force they can continually bombard the German army till they surrender. I don't know why they can't.

EVENING

PURANI: It seems Bhedabheda and Dwaitadwaita are not the same. The latter is the philosophy of Nimbarkar.

SRI AUROBINDO: I don't think Bhedabheda is the philosophy of Nimbarkar; I have read so somewhere. Yes, in the Prabuddha Bharata it was mentioned.

Nishtha's friend, the Swami in America, has reviewed The Life Divine. He has spent all his energy in defending the Sannyasis and at the end says that I don't believe in the Sannyasis.

Page - 623

PURANI: Is that all he has found?

SRI AUROBINDO: Practically. Of course he deals with some points here and there and says that I am a remarkable man, etc. I wonder whether these people have understood the book. The other reviewer of the Ramakrishna Mission also gives the impression that they follow the old conventional ways. But Ramakrishna did not proclaim any system of thinking. They follow Vivekananda, perhaps.

PURANI: Vivekananda does not seem to have succeeded as a philosopher.

SRI AUROBINDO: His writings on Yoga are forceful. He made an attempt at writing philosophy and said that all philosophies are on the way to the Truth but only Shankara's reaches the final goal.

PURANI: The Ramakrishna Mission doesn't have any outstanding thinker.

SRI AUROBINDO: Its people are good at the exposition of old ideas. Abhedananda had some power.

PURANI: Probably the whole speech of Chamberlain will be relayed. One can hear the shouts and cheers of members.

SRI AUROBINDO: Hardly worth relaying. Lloyd George's speech will be more interesting. It seems Stanley and Hoare will reply to the debate and not Churchill.

PURANI: Churchill is said to have some disagreement with Chamberlain.

SRI AUROBINDO: That is why he does not want to reply.

PURANI : Narvik is supposed to be in mountainous country. So there is no scope for air bases.

SRI AUROBINDO: The English speak of their difficulties but don't know how to overcome them; while Hitler, in spite of difficulties, grapples with them. He does not hesitate to establish airfields even in open fields.

8 MAY 1940

SRI AUROBINDO (to Purani): Have you seen Chamberlain's speech?

PURANI: No.

SRI AUROBINDO: He says the help to Norway was necessary and the retreat was also necessary. (Laughter) They knew about

Page - 624

Germany's invasion of Norway and provided for it, but they couldn't foresee everything. They sent to Norway a little more than one division-about 20,000 men. They could not send more because of fear of blows in other parts, which means that whenever they have such fear they will behave in a similar manner. He says they did not want to attack Trondjheim, but because of the call for help by the Norwegians they had to go and get beaten. Now the main thing is not the change of Ministry but more drive and push. Churchill is in command of the war and everything is all right. Attlee says the retreat was a wonderful feat of arms.

PURANI: There may be a change of government.

SRI AUROBINDO: It does not look like it. From his speech it seems that they have a very insufficient army, so they could not spare more men. But what does their conscription mean then? They have forty million people. France has as many -the British can also draw forces from the colonies and India.

PURANI: They don't want to take any risks, perhaps?

SRI AUROBINDO: How are they going to win? The English people were never like that. They have always taken risks.

NIRODBARAN (after some time): A pupil of Sisir went to see Ramana Maharshi and asked him two questions about you.

SRI AUROBINDO: About me? How would Maharshi know about me?

NIRODBARAN: He asked Maharshi whether you had shut yourself up in passivity or were doing some active work for political uplift.

SRI AUROBINDO: Political uplift? Like Subhas Bose in the Corporation? And what did Maharshi say?

NIBODBARAN: He did not give any direct reply. He only said you are like a dynamo and doing work in your own field. The second question was whether you had any chance of going back to politics. Maharshi said the answer would be a prophecy and he does not go in for such things. This man thinks that you are doing some political work here, training people for the revolution of the country.

SRI AUROBINDO: Again, like Bose?

NIRODBARAN: No, for the uplift of the country.

SRI AUROBINDO: It comes to the same thing. Bose also prophesies that he will get freedom by means of revolution.

Page - 625

9 MAY 1940

NIRODBARAN: Chamberlain has a majority of 81 votes. Is it good majority?

SRI AUROBINDO: A very narrow one, and about 150 have abstained. He has been criticised even by his own people. Amery's voice is the strongest. It shows dissatisfaction in his own party with his policy.

SATYENDRA: Hitler will perhaps consolidate his position in Norway before he makes any other venture.

SRI AUROBINDO: Perhaps. Unless there is too much economic pressure.

NIRODBARAN: The debate has shown how shabbily the whole affair has been carried out.

SRI AUROBINDO: Yes. Some admiral has said he could have taken Trondjheim if he had been given the command. He is a famous man.

(Later, to Purani while lying in bed) The Prabuddha Bharata has a remarkable article quoted from the Amrita Bazar Patrika. Have you seen it?

PURANI: No.

SRI AUROBINDO: See it. It is there on the table. You may find something familiar in the style.

PURANI : It seems to be from your Defence of Indian Culture. (Sri Aurobindo started smiling.) The ideas are taken from there.

SRI AUROBINDO: Only the ideas?

PURANI: Some words and expressions also.

SRI AUROBINDO: Only some? (Laughing) The whole thing is taken from the Defence.

PURANI: But who could have sent it?

SRI AUROBINDO: Perhaps M. Bagchi, but he may be in jail now. (Addressing Nirodbaran) You did not see this article in the Patrika'?

NIRODBARAN: No, I didn't notice it.

PURANI: Others have also done that. I wonder why they don't mention their quotation.

SRI AUROBINDO: If they did, they wouldn't get the credit for it. Some have made their names by taking passages from me.

Page - 626

10 MAY 1940

PURANI: Lloyd George has said in his speech what you said before. He says, "We promised help to Poland and did nothing. In Finland the same story and now in Norway it is repeated."

SRI AUROBINDO: His is the strongest attack, asking Chamberlain to resign.

PURANI: Churchill has said that because of the fear of communications being cut off by the German air force they had to give up.

SRI AUROBINDO: What does he mean? They did not think of it before? And why did they take up the operations in southern Norway in that case?

SATYENDRA: Somebody asked him, "Can you tell us if we now have an air base in Norway?" Churchill replied, "Now that the enemy knows, we can say 'Yes.'" (Laughter)

SRI AUROBINDO: The enemy knows, so we need not keep it from the British public?

SATYENDRA: The British officers said that all their movements became quickly known to the Germans.

SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, but Dr. Koht said, "It was not true that the Norwegians betrayed Norway. The fact is that some of them were sympathetic to the Germans." (Laughter)

PURANI: Jinnah has admitted that he has no control over the Khaksars. They are quite independent and they have not authorised him to make any settlement. On this The Hindu comments that it is very pleasing to see Jinnah's humility, but doesn't he claim that the Muslim League is the representative of all Muslims?

NIRODBARAN: In Bengal Muslemism is coming to sports also. The Muslim Sporting Club is claiming reservation of seats in the Indian Football Association. They have organised a huge meeting and passed resolutions asking the Muslims to boycott football till their claims are conceded.

SRI AUROBINDO: Good Lord, next they will do it in cricket also?

NIRODBARAN: Why not? It seems Bose is going to take up their cause.

SRI AUROBINDO: I see.

SATYENDRA : This is the last activity where they could bring up communalism.

Page -627

NIRODBARAN: No.

SRI AUROBINDO: There are plenty of other fields where it can spread.

SATYENDRA: What will Sotuda say or do?

NIRODBARAN: His duty is over on informing Sri Aurobindo

SRI AUROBINDO: You can tell him that God helps those who help themselves. (Laughter)

NIRODBARAN: I think he will only lament.

SRI AUROBINDO: And want me to lament with him?

SATYENDRA: Champaklal is not satisfied with your answer to Sotuda.

SRI AUROBINDO: No? (Beginning to smile)

NIRODBARAN: Champaklal believes only in Grace. Therefore your answer cannot satisfy him.

EVENING

At about 6.15 p.m. the news came that Germany had invaded Belgium, Holland and Luxembourg.

SRI AUROBINDO: I expected it. (After a pause) We will see.

NIRODBARAN: Perhaps Hitler has taken advantage of England's ministerial confusion.

SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, and Churchill's disclosure about their air power disparity. I was surprised that he gave it out. It is one thing to say that they had no aerodrome in Norway and another to let out the air power disparity.

NIGHT

SRI AUROBINDO: Now the expected blow has fallen; Chamberlain may say that England should be ready for future impending blows. Now they can send forces by land and sea and from the French frontier. The French have more foresight. They extended the Belgian Maginot Line against any future German attack.

NIRODBARAN: Could this attack be the reason for their withdrawal from Norway?

SRI AUROBINDO: In that case they will have to withdraw from everywhere because everywhere there will be impending blows. If

Page -628

they had attacked Trondjheim I am sure they would have been successful. The Germans would have been bogged down there.

NIRODBARAN: Churchill was for it, but the military advisers were not.

SRI AUROBINDO: Military advisers are always like that. They go by routine. It is like Napoleon against his generals. They lose in the right way!

PURANI: Now the ministerial crisis will recede.

SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, Chamberlain is a lucky beggar, but England is unlucky.

NIRODBARAN: Hitler is spreading war on many fronts which may not be very convenient for him.

SRI AUROBINDO: He wants to break through the blockade because of economic pressure. And if he gets air bases in the Netherlands he can attack England. He seems to be planning to attack Switzerland too. That will be a tough job for him as it is a mountainous country.

PURANI: If these neutrals had combined before, they would have been in a much stronger position.

SRI AUROBINDO: Of course. That shows how foolish humanity is. It does not see beyond its nose.

NIRODBARAN: Sweden is allying herself with Russia.

SRI AUROBINDO: That is the only thing to do.

SATYENDRA: I hope their idea of neutrality will go now.

SRI AUROBINDO: Let us hope so.

NIRODBARAN: Stalin does not want Sweden to fall into German hands.

SRI AUROBINDO: Obviously not. For, if Hitler gets Sweden, and if the Allies go down in the war, he is sure to attack Russia afterwards. He will promise independence to Finland and, through her, attack St. Petersburg and St. Petersburg's defences are not strong. What that Theosophist said about world war seems to be coming true.

SATYENDRA: Yes, Sir, he is only seven days behind. He predicted May 17th and today is the 10th.

SRI AUROBINDO: But it is not world war yet. It will be if Italy or Russia joins.

SATYENDRA: If not now, he says it will be next year, and the millennium., he says, will come in 1941 for a thousand years.

Page -629

SRI AUROBINDO: Whose millennium? Hitler's or Stalin's? And for a thousand years only?

NIRODBARAN: X believes that something great will happen in 1944.

SRI AUROBINDO: Why?

NIRODBARAN: He says that every eighteenth year of your life has been marked by a notable incident. In 1908 the Vasudev experience, in 1926 the Overmind descent.

SRI AUROBINDO: What about 1890? I don't know of anything except going to Cambridge.

NIRODBARAN: You got a scholarship, perhaps.

PURANI: They are fitting facts to theory, like Spengler in The Decline of the West.

11 MAY 1940

NIRODBARAN: So Chamberlain has been forced to resign.

SRI AUROBINDO: Not forced. He has himself resigned. That was the only thing to do. Now what is wanted is a national government.

NIRODBARAN: Does it mean that all his ministers too will have to resign?

SRI AUROBINDO: Of course. The King asks the new Prime Minister to make his Cabinet.

NIRODBARAN: I don't understand why those small countries could not make secret treaties.

SRI AUROBINDO: Perhaps for fear of discovery. But they could at least send some deputies to make some secret arrangements, deputies who could act on their own responsibility.

NIRODBARAN: Lloyd George has given a complimentary epithet to Hitler by calling him extraordinary.

SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, he has an admiration for Hitler.

SATYENDRA: Others have called him a mad dog.

NIRODBARAN: In the Ashram the feeling is divided. Some are for the British and some for Hitler.

SRI AUROBINDO: For Hitler?

SATYENDRA: Not exactly, but they are anti-British.

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SRI AUROBINDO: Not a rational feeling. How can India, who wants freedom, take sides with somebody who takes away freedom from other nation?

SATYENDRA: Feelings are not rational.

SRI AUROBINDO: Then the subjection of India will be justified in other countries' eyes?

PURANI: This parachute-dropping seems to be a new method of warfare.

SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, it was first devised by the Russians. But I don't think it can be very effective. It can be effective for sabotage or in places where there is no military organisation. Russia used it in Finland because the Finnish frontier was near and there too it was not so effective. The parachutists can be very easily rounded up.

EVENING

SATYENDRA: The Rotterdam aerodrome is in German hands. I wonder how they were able to take it.

PURANI: By parachute-dropping, probably.

SATYENDRA: The Germans are landing in Dutch and French uniforms, it seems.

SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, that is one of Hitler's ideas. Rauschnig, his one time confidential secretary, says that Hitler's plan seems to be that many such uniformed Germans will land in Paris one day and capture it. People will be so amazed that they will forget to put up any resistance. This Hitler seems to have romantic head.

SATYENDRA: Why is England landing troops in Iceland? What danger could there be?

SRI AUROBINDO: They could as well do it at the North Pole.

SATYENDRA: After all they have taken an initiative. Since they could not do it anywhere else, why not in Iceland?

SRI AUROBINDO: Hitler may be mad, but not so mad as to attack Iceland.

12 MAY 1940

NIRODBARAN: Churchill seems to have formed an able and effective ministry.

SRI AUROBINDO: Yes.

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NIRODBARAN: Attlee has been made Lord Privy Seal. What is that?

SRI AUROBINDO: Saying "Yes" or "No."

NIRODBARAN: Like being given, as you said, the Duchy of Lancashire? Chamberlain is President of the Council.

SRI AUROBINDO: That is also something like that.

SATYENDRA: He could have been left out.

SRI AUROBINDO: He still has a great influence among the Conservatives. Halifax could have been Secretary for India and Eden, Foreign Secretary. In that case the India policy would have been less stiff in combination with Linlithgow.

DR. RAO: Hore-Belisha and Simon seem to have been promoted to the Lords.

SRI AUROBINDO: Kicked upstairs?

PURANI: In India the British Government does not seem to be inclined to make any further move.

SRI AUROBINDO: No. It can't. It has said that compromise with the Muslims has to be effected. It has given the veto to Jinnah, and Gandhi also has done the same by saying that the Hindu-Muslim problem has to be solved before dealing with the question of joining the Ministry. In that case Jinnah will see his advantage and will hold out for the best terms.

SATYENDRA: The Congress seems to be irrational in saying that. The Congress people resigned from the Ministry because of the Imperial policy, not because of the Hindu-Muslim question.

SRI AUROBINDO: Now the Muslims will say that their allegation about the Congress injustice is true.

PURANI: Y considers Hitler a Kshatriya emanation.

SATYENDRA: Oh, he is furious against the British and is in sympathy with Hitler. He says the British have become old now by their long domination.

SRI AUROBINDO: German domination will be young and new?

SATYENDRA: Both are equally old.

SRI AUROBINDO: No, Germany is older than the English people. The latter are an Anglo-Saxon mixture.

NIRODBARAN: Germany is racially purer.

SRI AUROBINDO : That's humbug. The Germans are as much mixture of Slavs, Nordic Alpines and Celts. Nietzsche was a Slav. Kant was born in Pomerania and was a Slav.

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SATYENDRA: Goebbels says that the Allies attacked the Ruhr. So the Germans had to protect the Netherlands' neutrality.

SRI AUROBINDO: Does he think anybody will believe such stories? They are probably meant for home consumption. If the French had wanted to attack Germany they would have done that before the completion of the Siegfried Line.

NIRODBARAN: Y does not believe the British news.

SRI AUROBINDO: What one devil says is true and what another devil says is a lie? (Laughter) The British air force and navy give correct news. It is the army that doesn't.

NIRODBARAN: Are the Dutch good fighters?

SRI AUROBINDO: I don't know. They have not fought since the time of Napoleon.

SATYENDRA: That is a long time.

PURANI: If they had made some treaty or pact with the Allies -

SRI AUROBINDO: The neutrals wanted to have the best of both worlds. If Germany does not attack, they remain neutral. If it attacks, they know that the Allies will come to their help. Still, it would have made a great difference if plans had been made beforehand so that they could at once have taken up their positions.

SATYENDRA: I told Y what you had said —namely, that it is dangerous for us to support Hitler. For some days he keeps quiet and then goes off again. But he does not say anything outside.

SRI AUROBINDO: That does not make any difference. Somebody else may speak to an outsider and thus it goes out.

13 MAY 1940

EVENING

SATYENDRA: Germany is not finding any resistance in north-east Holland.

SRI AUROBINDO: The important part is the east. In the north-east they have no defence. The defence comes after the canals. It seems that Hitler did not expect any resistance from Holland. It was reported to him that the Dutch were bad soldiers and would soon give up the fight.

PURANI: He has been disillusioned. In Belgium the Germans are trying to outflank the Maginot Line.

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SRI AUROBINDO: Yes. If the Belgians had foresight like the French, they would have erected defences along their Dutch frontier.

NIRODBARAN: Italy is trying to be belligerent.

SRI AUROBINDO: Yes. But then I don't understand why she has sent all her ships abroad. They will all be caught if she joins the war.

NIRODBARAN: No revolution is likely in Poland and Czechoslovakia?

SRI AUROBINDO: Now it would be foolish. If they revolt, they will be massacred. Only after some Allied victory they may have a chance.

NIRODBARAN: We don't hear of Allied air attacks. Only Germany is taking a toll.

SRI AUROBINDO: The Allies are attacking behind the German lines and bombing troops also, only they don't speak of it. Essen was bombed. (Addressing Purani) It appears that Germany has worked out by some mathematical calculation that if they sacrifice 90,000 men they can then make a breach in the Maginot Line, while France will have to make a sacrifice of about one million to break through the Siegfried Line. I don't understand how they calculate.

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